Beginning game balance

keybounce · Post by **keybounce** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:09 pm

Alright, so I know a little more about the game than before, and I figure, lets see what it's like if I actually play knowing what I'm doing.

So, I start a new mage. Off to fight the master spammers.

Now, I earn 2 gold for each monster I kill. I have to kill three of them to afford a heal.

More if I fight things with no money

.

But those three paying wins come really, really close to killing me. I suspect it might have been a kill, with no way to heal, with just a little less luck.

Alright, level 1, and still not enough spam. Gaah, you think it would be more common. Many attacks later, and I've got my 5 cans.

Reward includes armor I can't use at level 1.
And, not enough money to buy a magic spell.

Alright, level 2, 38 gold, two spells I cannot afford.

Hmm. The first time around, I stuck in the easy zone a lot, and generally stayed in zones one-two levels below me; that gave me gold faster than XP, and I could afford spells. Now, I'm going up in level faster, and not getting money.

Not sure it's balanced at the low end.

Post by **Mad Merlin** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:12 pm

I think the healing point is a bit moot, even with a Mage you usually get to level 1 before you need to heal, and leveling up heals you. Besides, even if you die at level 0, you can get that 5% of your experience back in 1 battle (though, not your pride). Checking the Tavern (and Graveyard), it's worth noting that deaths to level 0 monsters are fairly rare.

Still, there's a bit of luck involved, but as a counterpoint, I just started a Mage and am now one or two fights away from level 2. I just completed the first quest and haven't needed to heal yet. I've also got (just barely) enough money to buy Blaze.

I think the balance is pretty good. Tweaking the level requirement on the Shabby Armour (to be 1 instead of 2) is probably the only thing I might be tempted to do. You'll probably not be able to use the Shabby Armour immediately after getting it, though you will be able to use it very soon, so really it's not too bad.

keybounce · Post by **keybounce** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:27 pm

Level 3, and I can finally afford Blaze.

Maybe the problem is that I am healing. If the death loss is 5% of xp, then spending 5 gold to keep that doesn't make sense -- that's spending 5 battles worth of income to protect two or three battles worth of XP.

Let me try a new character with no healing.

EDIT: Oh yea -- 4 MP for a spell, but only 5 MP total. I'm sure if I start casting, it will go up

.
EDIT 2: That's 5 mana, not 5 MP. Never mind

keybounce · Post by **keybounce** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:30 pm

Died to a furry rat

.

EDIT: How about making the master spammers more frequent? Right now it's well into level 1 before I get 5 cans of spam. (Exp 260).

EDIT 2: Ohh, much better: Now at level 2, no healing, and only one death. Even got blaze in time to kill two hyenas before going up to L2.

keybounce · Post by **keybounce** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:08 pm

Level 2 in Tall Hill zone was fun. Not.

Death or "Must heal" was a lot more common here. Twice I got down to 1 HP and zero MP.

The problem? 5% of XP takes just under two stamina (two battles) to recover. 5 gold takes just under two stamina (two battles) to recover.

If I pay for healing, I'm gaining XP and losing money.
If I die, I'm gaining money and losing XP.

I suppose I could just alternate; that should have me running in place doing nothing

.

Now, people have told me that going for levels is the best way to get money -- higher level encounters will pay more, so you always want to play in the highest level area you can to gain damage infliction. The theory, as I understand it, is that you can always go back a zone to make money.

If I play in lower zones, I'm gaining money and less XP, but not dying. My "natural" healing from levels might eliminate the need to spend money. But then, after spending all that stamina, I'm richer and lower level.

L0 and L1 were easy -- death was cheaper than the healer.
L2 is about equal.
Lets see what L3 is like.
EDIT: 17 XP, or 8 gold. Versus 5 for healing, or -30xp for death. Healing

.

Post by **Mad Merlin** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:47 pm

See? Not only balance, but strategy.

*attempts to run away but trips over a rock instead*

keybounce · Post by **keybounce** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:20 pm

L4, and no greasy confectionery.

Is the "drop rate" of quest items, and quest targets, only low at low levels, or do people constantly complain at all levels?

Dark alley seems to be rich payouts (needles, pills), but needs healing every two battles.

Level 4 zone needs healing every two battles, but seems to pay less??? (Never even saw the level 3 underwater zone

.

It's now costing 7-8 to heal, and L4 pays about 7-8 per battle. And 20 XP per battle.

The dark alley?
11x, 8g (chance of pill)
7x, 1g (chance of a needle)
8x, 1g, needle=38g.
8x, 2g, chance of quest item (nope!)
7x, 1g, chance of needle
11x, 12g, chance of fence.
8x, 2g, chance of quest item (nope!)
8x, 2g, chance of quest item (nope!)
11x, 8g (chance of pill)
11x, 8g (chance of pill)
11x, 8g, pill = 106

Looks like about 20g per, on average. Plus that quest item.

11x, 12g, white picket fence (A fence? All the crime...) Hey, it's usable. Darn, I should have sold it.
7x, 2g, chance of quest item (nope!)
11x, 8g (chance of pill)
11x, 12g, chance of fence.

Etc. Definitely pays more gold, but I'm ready to say "Get your own sandwich."
10x, 8g (chance of pill). XP is going down...
11x, 8g (chance of pill)
11x, 8g (chance of pill) (Or not going down)
7x, 2g, chance of quest item (nope!)
7x, 1g, needle=38g.
8x, 2g, chance of quest item (nope!)
10x, 12g. Mugger.

Sparkle zone:
20x, 8g hawk
19x, 8g, hawk
And a death to an orc (whoops, forgot the MP cost of egress)
21x, 7g, leopard.
20x, 7g, leopard
21x, 7g leopard
(Hmm, an orc got unrecorded)
20x, 9g, level, orc.

A flaming chainsaw. 24x, 11g. 11g healer.
Small child: Did not defeat.
Small child: 26x, 11g, -8g healer.
25x, 13g, -6 healer.
26x, 12g, -6 healer.

Alright, lets get some better equipment, or spells, or something. Hmm. I'm half the cost of the ice blast spell, or I can get armor.

Wait -- heart shaped box, 15K? Cookbook, 78K? Raw Dough, 49K? Who pays that much? And I'm worried about 250 gp?

AHA! 9 pm, clock resets, and a greasy confectionary on the first lout.

Money for things, new level, new area, new post

.

keybounce · Post by **keybounce** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:28 am

So just for the heck of it, a new mage that never goes to the healer. How far can it progress?

Well, far enough to see a question: Why would you get a short sword (+2 over the povery attack) or small shield (+2 over the poverty shield) since either of those kill the +3 poverty set bonus?

And a dirty needly is a better attack than a short short? Not a worse attack with a chance of a crit?

Heck, I don't think I've ever missed, not even once, and until I thought of using the needle as a weapon the concept of missing didn't occur to me.

Post by **Mad Merlin** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:43 am

keybounce wrote:So just for the heck of it, a new mage that never goes to the healer. How far can it progress?

Well, far enough to see a question: Why would you get a short sword (+2 over the povery attack) or small shield (+2 over the poverty shield) since either of those kill the +3 poverty set bonus?

And a dirty needly is a better attack than a short short? Not a worse attack with a chance of a crit?

Heck, I don't think I've ever missed, not even once, and until I thought of using the needle as a weapon the concept of missing didn't occur to me.

There's a small chance to miss for every swing in melee, however, spells never miss.