reserve items

[kariloy]

Well I disagree with the hobbit in the "you 'just' have to put something at a high price in the market and then remove and put it again at a lower price continuously repeating the process until you've sold it at the highest hidden offer. First off, isn't it a lot of trouble just for a few more coins of gold? It can be easier for high demand items, but for others... how would go about trying? 1st -- offer 100 000 gp ... nothing? remove and offer 80 000 gp -- voil? reservation auto-buy ... and by someone that could have even set his/her price at 99 999 gp and nevertheless paid only 80 000 gp. That said, even in these conditions, I think the "removing item from market" penalties you've suggested are quite nice.

As for keybounce, making the buyers offers public makes no sense, I can only foresee one thing happening that scenario... the buyers offering less and less for the items...

[keybounce]

Buyers will offer whatever they want. Low offer? Then it's not worth that much.

More people want it than it is produced at? Prices go up.

Right now, it's a hidden price/time tradeoff. Set a price. Wait a while. Did you get it? No. Re-offer at a higher price.

If the supply is greater than demand, then eventually you will be filled, right?

Well, no. That's the problem. We don't see the details of the supply. We see one supply price. Someone else listing can decide to list below that price, or to be invisible.

Hmm, actually, when you list an item for sale, do you see the current best sale price in the market? Now that I think about it, I don't think you do.

Can we at least get that feature -- when you go to list an item, show the current best price.

For that matter, can we get it easier to list something? There's a very easy "sell" button, but no easy "list" button.

EDIT: to clarify: If the reserve prices are public, then a seller has a clear choice: Take the offer, or post a counter offer.

Right now, the decision to take the offer, or post a counter is given to buyers, only. Not to sellers.

[Mad Merlin]

Buyers will offer whatever they want. Low offer? Then it's not worth that much.

More people want it than it is produced at? Prices go up.

Right now, it's a hidden price/time tradeoff. Set a price. Wait a while. Did you get it? No. Re-offer at a higher price.

If the supply is greater than demand, then eventually you will be filled, right?

Well, no. That's the problem. We don't see the details of the supply. We see one supply price. Someone else listing can decide to list below that price, or to be invisible.

Hmm, actually, when you list an item for sale, do you see the current best sale price in the market? Now that I think about it, I don't think you do.

Can we at least get that feature -- when you go to list an item, show the current best price.

For that matter, can we get it easier to list something? There's a very easy "sell" button, but no easy "list" button.

EDIT: to clarify: If the reserve prices are public, then a seller has a clear choice: Take the offer, or post a counter offer.

Right now, the decision to take the offer, or post a counter is given to buyers, only. Not to sellers.

Keep in mind that there's the Swap Shop too, if there's something specific you're looking for and there's a specific price you're willing to pay for it, you can go that route. Market reservations are arguably more powerful than that, as you can offer the max that you'd be willing to pay for the item without having to guarantee that you'll pay the max for the item (indeed, you'll frequently pay quite a bit less). If reserve prices were public, sellers would take advantage and you'd always pay the max price, never less.

You can see the current best Market price in all of the item descriptions (from the Inventory page), or if you scroll down a bit at the Market, which covers both places you can stock the Market from (though you can't directly set the prices through your Inventory, it uses your Market policy (see your Financial Advisor)).

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "an easy list button". Do you mean a way to see all of a particular item that's currently on sale at the Market instead of just the lowest priced one?

[keybounce]

I want to easily list a single item on the market without having to go back to town, to the market, and the list it.

I want, when looking at my inventory, just like there is a [sell] button that pays poorly, or an [eat], or [use], or [equip] button, a

• button.
  
  This would show me what's the current best price in the market, and how many people have reserve prices for it.
  
  I would then enter the price that I want it to go at.
  ===
  
  Showing buyer prices or not:
  What if things were turned around?
  There's a buyer for this product at 3000. There are 5 people selling, but we won't tell you what they are being sold for. Want to offer 6000? Ok, you got it for 6000. You could have gotten it for 3100, but you didn't know that.
  
  Is that market model any different, fundamentally, than the current one? In the current one, sellers take all risk of loss from offering a price that wasn't as good as it could have been; in what I just mentioned, the buyer taks all risk.
  
  Markets where both prices are viewable do exist, and do seem to work nicely. Yes, the buyer pays what they said they would pay. What you have is a model where the buyer may pay what they say, but may get lucky and pay a lot less. There isn't as much trade as could be, as any seller that gets an immediate sale knows that they just got gipped.
  
  (is it "gipped" or "jipped"?)
  
  How about a compromise: Display the second highest bid price, similar to ebay?

[thousandinone]

gyp also gip (jp) Slang
tr.v. gypped also gipped, gyp?ping also gip?ping, gyps also gips
To deprive (another) of something by fraud; cheat or swindle.
n.
1. A fraud or swindle.
2. One who defrauds; a swindler.

[thousandinone]

gyp also gip (jp) Slang
tr.v. gypped also gipped, gyp?ping also gip?ping, gyps also gips
To deprive (another) of something by fraud; cheat or swindle.
n.
1. A fraud or swindle.
2. One who defrauds; a swindler.

[Mad Merlin]

I want to easily list a single item on the market without having to go back to town, to the market, and the list it.

I want, when looking at my inventory, just like there is a [sell] button that pays poorly, or an [eat], or [use], or [equip] button, a

• button.
  
  This would show me what's the current best price in the market, and how many people have reserve prices for it.
  
  I would then enter the price that I want it to go at.

Ah. Well, you can almost do that, click on the item name to show the description (which includes the number reserved at the Market, the current best sale price at the Market, the regular sale price and your price), then you can select that item, tick "put 1 of each on the market", and then go. The only thing that's missing here is setting the price explicitly, as here the price is set via your pricing policy which you can see at your Financial Advisor.

Showing buyer prices or not:
What if things were turned around?
There's a buyer for this product at 3000. There are 5 people selling, but we won't tell you what they are being sold for. Want to offer 6000? Ok, you got it for 6000. You could have gotten it for 3100, but you didn't know that.

Is that market model any different, fundamentally, than the current one? In the current one, sellers take all risk of loss from offering a price that wasn't as good as it could have been; in what I just mentioned, the buyer taks all risk.

Markets where both prices are viewable do exist, and do seem to work nicely. Yes, the buyer pays what they said they would pay. What you have is a model where the buyer may pay what they say, but may get lucky and pay a lot less. There isn't as much trade as could be, as any seller that gets an immediate sale knows that they just got gipped.

(is it "gipped" or "jipped"?)

How about a compromise: Display the second highest bid price, similar to ebay?

The current system actually mirrors real life stores quite well. The prices are all on display for the buyers to see, but the sellers aren't aware of what the buyer's would actually pay for anything (unless they ask). Furthermore, people frequently have reserve prices in their minds for particular products (such as, I'll buy that new quad core CPU when it's less than $500...), which are also unknown to the sellers.

Now, I'm not saying that realistic is the same as good, but it's certainly familiar.

Also keep in mind that item reservations are a very secondary part of the Market. Without looking at the actual numbers, I'd say 85% of sales via the Market are regular sales and not fulfilled through the reservation system.

I still think if you want to make your reserve price public you should use the Swap Shop. Speaking of which, do you want to make your reserve prices public, or do you just want to see other people's?

[keybounce]

The only thing that's missing here is setting the price explicitly, as here the price is set via your pricing policy which you can see at your Financial Advisor.

Which makes it useless, as it needs to be set on a per-item basis.

You are right in that this model matches real life retail stores. I had not thought of that. I was thinking of trading markets.

Do I want to see others, or do I want mine public: I'm too poor to buy right now . I want a better seller's market.

[Mad Merlin]

The only thing that's missing here is setting the price explicitly, as here the price is set via your pricing policy which you can see at your Financial Advisor.

Which makes it useless, as it needs to be set on a per-item basis.

It is on a per item basis. If you sell something at the Market and "remember price?" is ticked (the default)... it'll remember that price for next time.

[keybounce]

Which, in turn, means that I have to go to the market to sell, not just use the "sell one of each ticked item" interface.

[Mad Merlin]

Which, in turn, means that I have to go to the market to sell, not just use the "sell one of each ticked item" interface.

But only once.

[keybounce]

Ahh. Ok, I see where we have a different optinion/viewpoint.

Each time I sell something, I want to change my price based on what the current listed sell price for the item is.

I want to go low enough that I will get it, but not so low that I'm losing significantly.

If I sell something every time, and quickly, then I can make more by selling at a higher price.

Not selling has a cost of 50 (the listing price); if I can make 250 by having a price slightly higher than optimal, and occasionally paying the 50 listing fee twice, then I'm better to be slightly high.

...

Maybe I'm putting just a little too much thought into this .