Quest Expansion

Hyppy · Post by **Hyppy** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:58 pm

I think that new quests should be added. Most of the game is grinding levels, which becomes old very quickly. Here are some of my ideas:

* Add at least 1 quest every 2 or so levels, especially above 20 or so. There is too much space in between current quests. It's not a bad thing to have 2 or 3 quests open at a time, I wouldn't think.

* For the quests that have drops, give quest items a certain chance to drop (much higher than normal items), but only for people on that quest. Also, make them non-tradable. For the pack-rats out there, you could have 1 of the quest items be returned upon completing the quest.

* Quests don't need to necessarily be complicated. "Go get X of this item," "Go kill Y of this monster type," and "Find and kill Boss monster Z" are all perfectly acceptable. Simple puzzles and scavenger hunts add some too, but they need to be solvable.

* REWARDS. Rewards need to be meaningful. I think this is obvious enough.

Post by **Mad Merlin** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:44 pm

I agree, there should be more quests.

I really try and avoid making crummy quests though. In my eyes, there's a couple ways of doing that (avoiding them, that is), from most to least common:

- interesting backstory
- boss monster(s), particularly challenging ones
- unique game mechanics

Those obviously aren't mutually exclusive, but you really need at least one. Of course, that's all well and good, but it's hard to come up with any of that on demand.

Meaningful rewards are obviously necessary, but those are relatively easy to come up with after the rest of the quest is laid out.

Hyppy · Post by **Hyppy** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:07 pm

My intention was to encourage more of a series of "generic" quests, if you will. Interesting backstory and challenging boss monsters is great, but having a small but meaningful goal to break up the monotony has its place as well. They're not mutually exclusive any more than beer and pretzels.

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:20 am

Quests that depend on random item drops can get frustrating. I've been questing for at least four or five levels waiting for a particularly stubborn item to drop. Still no dice. I prefer the quests with a non-random goal or that depend on drops that aren't quite so rare. Perhaps there could be an automatic drop of the quest item after a set period of time to prevent me from pulling all my hair out?

Post by **Mad Merlin** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:50 am

Will wrote:Quests that depend on random item drops can get frustrating. I've been questing for at least four or five levels waiting for a particularly stubborn item to drop. Still no dice. I prefer the quests with a non-random goal or that depend on drops that aren't quite so rare. Perhaps there could be an automatic drop of the quest item after a set period of time to prevent me from pulling all my hair out?

Hmm, that's pretty unlucky... did you start looking at around level 16? (Also, a few quest items only drop in the quest areas, but with much higher drop rates.)

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:03 am

Well, I could certainly be off in my assumption about how to conquer this particular quest.

Possible Spoiler Below select text to view
[spoiler]
I need to create a New Age Paintbrush for the Quest Master. I don't know for sure, but I believe that this is a combination of Clump of Ox Hair and Stick. I'm waiting for a stick to drop, which you said is possible starting at level 20. I've been fighting the most difficult monsters available since the beginning of the quest and haven't seen a stick yet. So, either I'm very unlucky or I'm wrong about how to make the brush. Or both.
[/spolier]

Hyppy · Post by **Hyppy** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:58 pm

You're just unlucky, but your aim is true.

Will · Post by **Will** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:51 am

Today I spent 241 stamina, I'm up to level 30, and said item has yet to drop. Still been fighting monsters of the highest availability level, except when my stamina starts to go negative and I drop down a bit.

What happens if this quest isn't finished before the Quest Master would normally give out a new quest? Do I miss the next quest, or do they queue up?

Hyppy · Post by **Hyppy** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:13 am

Don't worry, they just queue up.

evev · Post by **evev** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:47 pm

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles Will. I'm having a hard time imagining that Game! would single you out and deny you the glory of Stick, so I blame Murphey and a string of really bad luck.

The quests do que up as Hyppy said, and even if you complete the requirments for a quest without speaking to the Quest Master first you still get credit. The reward for the New Age Paintbrush is nice, but far from mission critical.

Drop by IRC or send me a forum or in-game message. I'll be happy to put a stick in the Swap Shop for you.

Will · Post by **Will** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:19 am

evev wrote:Drop by IRC or send me a forum or in-game message. I'll be happy to put a stick in the Swap Shop for you.

Thanks for the generous offer, but for now I think I'll try to grind through and get my stick the old fashioned way. I'll get back in touch with you if I haven't seen it by level 35.

evev · Post by **evev** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:33 pm

I would encourage everyone to keep quality over quantity in mind when it comes to quests. Remember that the few quest archetypes that seem fresh and unique now will simply turn into grind under a different name if we end up tripping over them at every level.

Hyppy wrote:* For the quests that have drops, give quest items a certain chance to drop (much higher than normal items), but only for people on that quest. Also, make them non-tradable. For the pack-rats out there, you could have 1 of the quest items be returned upon completing the quest.

I'm down for slightly increasing the drop chance of items that the Quest Master wants when a player is actively doing the quest. To prevent abuse, this increase will disappear the moment a player acquires enough items (for example: 5 Shrubberies or 1 Stick). Making more items non-tradable or adding more items just for quests seems silly to me. We already have 310 unique items, so lets do more with less.

Hyppy wrote:* Quests don't need to necessarily be complicated. "Go get X of this item," "Go kill Y of this monster type," and "Find and kill Boss monster Z" are all perfectly acceptable. Simple puzzles and scavenger hunts add some too, but they need to be solvable.

As I mentioned elsewhere, if we start littering generic quests at every or every other level then I feel their appeal will quickly disappear. I'm positive that MadMerlin can slap together several dozen fetch or FedEx quests in an afternoon. However, I imagine he avoids doing that so he can bring us a better experience that tries to stand above the usual MMORPG rigmorole of: "kill X amount of monster Y for lazy, stationary cock-head Z".

To wrap this up, the world is your oyster guys. If you really want more quests then design some and then submit them for review. At the most basic I'd suggest you include:

Which event triggers the quest?
What are the requirements for the quest to trigger?
Please write the text that will provide the player with a backstory and clear quest requirements.
Step by step list of actions a player takes to fulfill the quest.
Can the quest be failed?
What is the quest reward?

Will · Post by **Will** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:04 pm

evev wrote:The quests do que up as Hyppy said, and even if you complete the requirments for a quest without speaking to the Quest Master first you still get credit. The reward for the New Age Paintbrush is nice, but far from mission critical.

I just took advantage of this "feature" and I'm a little disappointed. I'm still waiting for the Stick to drop so I can complete my current quest, but I've found some other stuff to keep me entertained while I wait.

During my adventures, I completed what appears to be a requirement for a subsequent quest and was awarded the prize by the Quest Master. Unfortunately, I never got to read about the details of the quest and I'm not sure that I ever will, since it is may already be complete.

Quests are one of my favorite part of Game! and I enjoy reading the description given by the Quest Master, figuring out the little puzzles, the feeling of purpose rather than grinding, and the excitement of finally completing the goal.

I think it is important to have quests queue up, and I don't mind working on more than one quest at a time, but I would like to at least know about all the quests that are in progress. If the quests do queue up, would it be possible to either:

Suspend the subsequent quest(s) until the "active" one is completed or
Display all active quests so that players don't miss out on reading about the details of the queued quests?

Edit by Mad Merlin: Fixed

markup.

Post by **Mad Merlin** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:51 pm

Will wrote:
evev wrote:The quests do que up as Hyppy said, and even if you complete the requirments for a quest without speaking to the Quest Master first you still get credit. The reward for the New Age Paintbrush is nice, but far from mission critical.
I just took advantage of this "feature" and I'm a little disappointed. I'm still waiting for the Stick to drop so I can complete my current quest, but I've found some other stuff to keep me entertained while I wait.

During my adventures, I completed what appears to be a requirement for a subsequent quest and was awarded the prize by the Quest Master. Unfortunately, I never got to read about the details of the quest and I'm not sure that I ever will, since it is may already be complete.

Quests are one of my favorite part of Game! and I enjoy reading the description given by the Quest Master, figuring out the little puzzles, the feeling of purpose rather than grinding, and the excitement of finally completing the goal.

I think it is important to have quests queue up, and I don't mind working on more than one quest at a time, but I would like to at least know about all the quests that are in progress. If the quests do queue up, would it be possible to either:

Suspend the subsequent quest(s) until the "active" one is completed or

Display all active quests so that players don't miss out on reading about the details of the queued quests?

Ah, what probably happened is the quest opened up to you (but you didn't realize that yet, as you hadn't visited the Quest Master yet), you then continued on and completed the quest requirements before visiting the Quest Master. You can actually see every quest description in Game! from a single visit to the Quest Master, provided you make a point of not completing any of them and wait until you're high enough level.

Due to the fact that it doesn't record if you've seen the quest opening, combined with the fact that after finishing a quest you only need to visit the Quest Master to complete it, you managed to miss the opening.

What I'll probably do is add a [ complete ] link inside the quest description that you then click to complete a quest rather than the quest completion happening automagically.

evev · Post by **evev** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:57 pm

Just tested this myself with a new character and you will indeed see the introductory quest instructions for as many quests as you have open at the time.

Personally I'm surprised that people are running into the issue of completing quests without knowing that they are on a quest in the first place. Even though quests are currently spaced far apart I still make a point of checking the Skill Shop, Magic Shop and Quest Master each time I level in case any new goodies open up.

Either way, a [Complete] link would be a nice addition to improve usability.