Stuff I'm still trying to find

[Mad Merlin]

I'm not opposed to making some of the windfall items available through regular (albeit, inconvenient and/or extraordinary) means, but I wouldn't do that for all of them.

I'm all for making them available via inconvenient and/or extraordinary means. The act of acquiring a squashed bug however should remain the same as that is a special case.

Giving players a goal (ie collect them all) and then after they've spent months maybe years playing the game and then they realize they can't complete said goal is a surefire way to get people to quit playing and not come back.

As long as the items are available in some way, the player won't feel like it's an unfair challenge. They don't even have to be easy to acquire and in fact probably shouldn't be. As long as the player can look at the challenge and go "If I put a bit of work into this I can complete it." they will rise to the challenge. But if they realize it's impossible or so hard that it's practically impossible they are going to lose interest and stop playing.

Well, realistically speaking, they are all attainable now, even for new players. What may not be immediately obvious to those with OCD (myself certainly included) is that some people really don't care about packratting and would much rather have a big bundle of gold or other more useful items in exchange for their windfall items.

Since all of the windfall items are tradable, this allows them to circulate until they ultimately end up in packratting hands, which they're unlikely to leave. At that point, they basically become impossible to attain, and should probably be available via some other method, but not before then. I'll have to have a look and see how far along today's windfall items are on said journey to unattainability.

I agree completely that presenting an impossible goal is just evil, that's not my intention. I think if nothing else, I'll break the windfall items out into a separate line at the Pack Rat Trainee's (and not include them in the regular count), something like "I've also heard about $n items that may require divine assistance to attain... but you've already got $m of them!", such that collecting "all" (minus the windfalls) of the items becomes much easier, and if you want to go for really all of the items (after heeding the warning) you can do that too.

Rhetorical question: Is an impossible goal still evil if it's clearly marked as impossible?

[Mad Merlin]

In short, while I disagree with technohat that these items penalize new players and should be made available to everyone (since they're a useful measure of how long you've been around Game!)

A more useful measure for how long you've been in game! would be a trophy room where everyone is listed on particular trophies. ie 1 year players, 2 year players, 5 year players, etc.

This, I think, is worth addressing separately. I'd like to add an "achievement" system to Game! at some point, not only because they're rather trendy, but because I think they're also very cool. I've made note of this as a possible achievement (character age).

[Rick]

In another post on a different topic (I forget exactly) I brought up the desire for having trinkets and knickknacks be random drops on holiday island. I think this would also work well for seasonal gifts & Halloween candy. Though I think that a new, more expensive (100K+) Holiday Island destination should be created for these items and the drops should be ultra-rare. But this would allow players who have not been around since the dawn of time to collect these items, providing they have enough cash and patience to do so.

[keybounce]

Well, realistically speaking, they are all attainable now, even for new players. What may not be immediately obvious to those with OCD (myself certainly included) is that some people really don't care about packratting and would much rather have a big bundle of gold or other more useful items in exchange for their windfall items.

Rhetorical question: Is an impossible goal still evil if it's clearly marked as impossible?

Are you sure that it's possible for a new player?

I'm certain that you can check how many people have one or more of those special items in their inventory. You can probably check if those people still play. You might just take a short cut, and see how many Rick has, and use that if non-zero.

But how would I go about trying to buy them? If I've never seen them, how do I put up a buy offer? If they aren't for sale in the market, how do I see them to know that they exist? And even if they are for sale in the market, how do I get them when Rick buys everything just because?

As for impossible, there are two types of impossible. Those that are really, really hard, and those that are truly impossible. If you lead someone to believe the first when it's the second, _THAT_'s evil.

[Rick]

Well, some things are just about impossible to get. Sugar Cookies are a case in point: I have a few obtained through trades a couple years ago, but have not been able to get any more since, no matter how much stuff or gold I offer. If I can't pay enough to convince someone to cough one up, it is also unlikely (or impossible) that a newer player can.

Having said that, there are also plenty of rare items that I would be willing to sell to newer players, and I am sure I am not the only one. But I have never even been approached or offered any kind of trade for those items. If no one ever even asks, then then the probability of getting the item in trade is zero!!

[keybounce]

Ok,first: Where can I even see the list of what I do not have yet?

I can't make an offer for something if I don't know about it.

Second: According to the market, there are now 4 people with an outstanding offer for Sugar cookies. But even that list doesn't show the things that are only requested by one or two people.

Third: Lets see. Rick is looking for Fun-sized candy at a price that should bring it out, if it exists and is for sale. So if Rick can't get it, how can any of us get it?

There, sort by price:
Sugar cookie: 3 million
Fun-sized: .75 million
Tiny horse-shaped: .5 million
Candy cape: .5 milllion

Mini aluminum poles -- supposedly the cheapie version: .25 million.

Yea, I think we need some way to get these ... maybe as rewards for the relaxed vacation spenders?

[technohat]

The pack rat trainee says I need 6 more items but I've only seen 5 of them.

I know I need

Sugar Cookie
Fun-Sized Candy
Fairy Statue
Candy Cape
Tiny Horse Shaped Chocolate

So that leaves one mysterious item that I've never run across nor have I seen up for trade or sale. I know all 93 combinations and all 78 cooking recipes. I also have all 19 pets. To the best of my knowledge, I've been to every area. I've also got everything available in the item shop and the great gift shop. I've also managed to get a squashed bug. I know where to get the fairy statue, it's just hard to get. But it doesn't look like I'll be able to get the others anytime soon, if ever. As for the one unknown item, I can't request it from anyone if I don't know what it is.

[Mad Merlin]

The pack rat trainee says I need 6 more items but I've only seen 5 of them.

I know I need

Sugar Cookie
Fun-Sized Candy
Fairy Statue
Candy Cape
Tiny Horse Shaped Chocolate

So that leaves one mysterious item that I've never run across nor have I seen up for trade or sale. I know all 93 combinations and all 78 cooking recipes. I also have all 19 pets. To the best of my knowledge, I've been to every area. I've also got everything available in the item shop and the great gift shop. I've also managed to get a squashed bug. I know where to get the fairy statue, it's just hard to get. But it doesn't look like I'll be able to get the others anytime soon, if ever. As for the one unknown item, I can't request it from anyone if I don't know what it is.

The one item you're missing that you haven't seen is actually the easiest to get of the bunch. It drops regularly if you're in the right area. Think alliterative.

Also, I've reviewed the numbers and I'm going to make all of the current "windfall" items available via normal means. They won't be easy to get, but more of them will be in circulation.

[keybounce]

Please tell me at least some of those are cookables

Hmm ... Tiny Horse-shaped chocolate? Maybe cook the pony seed with a chocolate?

[technohat]

The one item you're missing that you haven't seen is actually the easiest to get of the bunch. It drops regularly if you're in the right area. Think alliterative.

OK, I found the missing item. I'm really surprised I haven't seen one for sale in the year and a half I've been playing. I'm also surprised I didn't get one when I went through the area the first time. Unless the item in question was added later during the 2010-01-30 or 2010-02-28 updates.

Also, I've reviewed the numbers and I'm going to make all of the current "windfall" items available via normal means. They won't be easy to get, but more of them will be in circulation.

Sounds great! I can't wait. Thanks!

[Mad Merlin]

The one item you're missing that you haven't seen is actually the easiest to get of the bunch. It drops regularly if you're in the right area. Think alliterative.

OK, I found the missing item. I'm really surprised I haven't seen one for sale in the year and a half I've been playing. I'm also surprised I didn't get one when I went through the area the first time. Unless the item in question was added later during the 2010-01-30 or 2010-02-28 updates.

It was added in the initial update, I remember seeing a few on sale (for very high prices) shortly afterwards, but after that it's been pretty rare. Likely by virtue of being in a high-ish level area that's off the beaten path.

[Zantac]

I know all 93 combinations and all 78 cooking recipes. I also have all 19 pets.

I stand amazed.

[keybounce]

How long did it take to learn all those?

When new things were added, how long did it take to go back and retest all the things again?

[technohat]

How long did it take to learn all those?

When new things were added, how long did it take to go back and retest all the things again?

About a year and a half. Trying to be methodical about testing various item combinations can be a bit frustrating as unsuccessful combinations usually result in the items being destroyed. The cookbook and statistics textbook really came in handy when trying to locate the last couple of combinations, but they were also frustrating as they would usually turn into a pile of dust after being used without giving me a useful combination. I think the last item combination I was missing took me several months to uncover using textbooks. It was a bit tedious collecting scrolls to trade in and then hoping I would get a textbook and not another cookbook.

I've also found all the items available except for the following "windfall" items.

Sugar Cookie
Fun-Sized Candy
Candy Cape
Tiny Horse Shaped Chocolate

I'm just waiting for the update where they become more readily available. I'm also trying to build up my cash reserves in case one comes up for sale in the marketplace.

[Mad Merlin]

Also, I've reviewed the numbers and I'm going to make all of the current "windfall" items available via normal means. They won't be easy to get, but more of them will be in circulation.

As mentioned in today's news, two of the windfall items are now available via other means. The others will be coming in a later update.